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I don’t have EDS but I have wicked hypermobility. I can spot us a mile away. Shifting, bending. It was fun when I was younger. Lots of party tricks but injuries after 40. It was a gym trainer who diagnosed me.

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That's so true--we can spot each other! Shifting, bending, LEANING...we're always leaning haha. And the weird sitting positions we shift through.

Alas, the party tricks were fun back in the day. Albeit we probably shouldn't have been doing those hehe.

A gym trainer, I was going to say that's wild--but that actually makes a lot of sense.

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Same but it was massage therapist. No sense in giving me stretches to do cuz the joints are so hypermobile nothing gets stretched

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Yes exactly! A lot of stretches don't work, if you've gotten to the point where you'd only be stretching ligaments not muscle. There are some I learned at physio though, where certain positions hold the muscles in place better for stretching.

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Thanks! I’ll have to research those. I need some for back and butt. Belly on the ground in child’s pose, or falling asleep in pigeon pose…doesn’t quite cut it.

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Hmm..I don't know any for the butt, but do for the back. Upper or lower back?

I hear you on child's pose, that's not stretching anything for peeps like us...it's just comfortable for me haha

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Lower mostly. L3 right down into sacrum.

Upper between C7 and about T5-ish. Between scapula, rhomboid area.

Tough areas to get at.

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ooph, yeah those are tough spots. I hurt in the same places. What has worked for me--and obviously this isn't medical advice, just one person trying to figure it out ...trying to help someone else figuring it out.

But what works for me for the lower back/sacrum area is:

1. leaning forward in a deep 'asian squat'.

2. laying on my back and pulling my legs tight to my chest.

For the low C's scapula, put your opposite arm behind your back to hold the muscle in place for the stretch, like this:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0368/5662/7245/files/Upper_Trapezius_Stretch.jpg?v=1664789617

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My wife's physical therapist was smart enough to know too. Great guy.

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It really takes a village of healthcare professional to spot and deal with these conditions!

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I bow to you Robin. Seriously, not joking. Thankyou for your extraordinary, creative writing . .. turning everything into a sort of poetry,

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Aww thanks Tony! Writing keeps me sane(ish) haha

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I understand your problem with doctors. I had a auto accident where my head snapped to the left and my jaw dislocated. I also hit the back of my head and knocked the car seat flat. Afterwards I had vertigo when I turned my head to the left, threw up and had a migraine. Doctors decided I was faking. I figured out my dislocated jaw was poking me in the ear when I turned my head left which caused the vertigo and the rest. Cranial Sacral Therapy and Rolfing fixed it. Took me 6 years of pain to find out what would work. Doctors only took all the insurance money and said after they got that, I was faking. ☹️. Not fond of them. Understand what you went through a lot.

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Damn, that's horrible!! Wouldn't it be great if we got to line up all the doctors who gaslit us and called us liars and shove the diagnosis they missed in their faces? Well, not the ones who actually tried, and who treated us like human beings. Just the asshat ones hehe.

That's the third time I heard about Rolfing recently! It must be getting better known these days.

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What a journey. Thank the gods for your pushy mom and for your own kickass spirit. May your good doctor find ways to keep you out of pain.

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Thanks Jan! And yes I owe my pushy-bitch mom a big thanks too haha. She's where I get my kickass spirit from.

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I learned something; I felt for you; and yet I had to chuckle. And I believe those things were precisely the intent. Thank you for sharing, Robin. 🫶🏻

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You clearly understood the assignment Pamela :)

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I know another woman who has the same thing. I didn't know all the details like you outlined in your article, Robin, but I can now sympathize with her...and you. I also am going through a rare disease with the same health care issues that you mentioned. My PCP wrote me a referral to a psycho doctor, which I refused to use. You are fortunate that your mother helped advocate. We must do so much of that in our healthcare system.

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Rare diseases are fun huh? Do you get the pleasure of having to try to inform your doctor(s) about your disease as much as you can in a 10 minute visit while still making it productive?

I'm sooo fortunate for my mom. Advocacy is so important, because fighting the fighting in itself is hard.

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No fun. Keep up the good fight.

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I'm sorry I laughed at "excited to catch a weird one." Doctors are weird, aren't they?

Those prayer hands are something else. You'd do well with my yoga app. That AI-lady has oddly long arms...or I have oddly short ones. She is physically impossible.

On a more serious note, thank you for sharing this. Although funny because of your writing style, I don't envy the chronic parts of your condition. Keep praying (behind your back) and maybe they'll come up with a cure?? For the record, I've been on the neurology wait list for almost 3 years for chronic migraines so I get it....FREE Canadian healthcare for the win.

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oh good, you were supposed to laugh at catching a weird one. I did hehe.

Yoga isn't great for my people--but we can annihilate any class in terms of flexibility (but we blow goats at endurance). It isn't fair to the others haha. Weird 'fun' fact--my armspan is weirdly long, so I might be the human incantation of your AI lady lol.

That sucks you have to deal with migraines, that's rough. :( Ugh, the neurology waitlist. I'm not even on it yet, they won't deal with my neckpain (EDS people can get something called craniocervical instability) until I lose more sensation in my arms and legs. *Face palm.

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So is your pain daily? Is that what "chronic" means in your world? I couldn't imagine daily headaches, I'd be unemployed 😩

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There's a daily homeostasis pain then variable pain, but most days are manageable. The chronic fatigue is probably the harder part. I sleep a full night but wakeup feeling like I haven't slept. But like with many chronic conditions every day is a little different, but I have some good days :)

And it takes some serious time management to get through work plus all the other shiznit. That's why sometimes I take a day or two to respond, I'm not being a dick I swear haha. I just have to timeblock my days and some days I just run out of steam and my responding to my (internet) friends is deprioritized over self care.

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Awww nobody thinks you're a dick 😊

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I recently found out that yoga isn't always great for us EDSers. If your practice focuses on flexibility over strength, it can be problem. 😔

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I always knew you had superpowers! Glad to hear it's not a progressive cancer. I have "special skills" too. So, two questions (or 3, 7, 28).

1) When you got fed up with a dismissive doctor who minimized your concerns, did you ever tell them something like this? "It's normal? I thought so, but you know - primary care doctors are idiots. He said my pulse was slow." Then turn your head away so the pulse disappeared in both arms? Yes, those wait times for an MRI can be shortened. I bet you can do this by impinging the blood supply. You get ten more points by lagging on getting the MRI and making them convince you of the need.

2) Is your digestion messed up and blamed on motility? How many times has a doctor tried to explain the autonomic system and you've asked him to write it down, then broken out a blue pencil and "edited it" for them?

3) Do you have relatives iwth this? My daughter also claims she's special because she can bend her finger bones back without moving her knuckles. "Pshaw!" I say, then bend my wrist backward 120 degrees.

4) Were odd blood tests brushed aside as "maybe you're catching a cold, or just in pain." Odd white cell counts and chronic inflammation are usually the first hint there's an autoimmune disease that can effect joints, skin, internal organs, the brain, blood, you know - body cells. I gave up stamp collecting for multiple autoimmune disorder diagnoses before saying, "No thanks. What difference will it make?"

I'm genuinely sorry, Robin. I know you've got to be in bad pain. Before going down the radical px treatment route, hit me up in chat. Some early interventions for childhood Rheumatoid Arthritis may have weakened my immune system so other autoimmune disorders took hold.

In the meantime, how are you at making seal noises and leaping high in the air for fish? I can talk to my three-ring circus leader and see if there are openings.

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hehe, superpowers, yes. Weird ones.

1. I...did not understand this. Could be the phrasing, could be my own brain fog.

2. I never got help with my digestion, I figured that part out on my own over about a decade. But yeah..that sounds about right sadly.

3. Ooh you're a bendy breed of family! None of my immediate family have this, but we're overall genetic defects and have a wide range of rare diseases.

4. I had the exact opposite experience, all my blood tests were normal. So they'd send me to another specialist (which would be 6 months to 1 year+ wait), who would ofetn rerun the same tests *face palm. EDS is a genetic disorder not autoimmune (although I have celiac too, because health conditions tend to cluster) so it doesn't increase antibodies, ANA levels, etc. But I hear you on the constant relying on bloodwork for diagnoses!

I'm sorry you're going through all that too, ugh that sounds rough. Especially childhood RA, eek!

I haven't taken to joining the circus yet...but I'll hit you up for a freakshow hookup soon haha

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:) I forgot to ask a related question:

New 1: (New one - get it? Oh, I'm so clever! Ouch - I just annoyed myself.)

Replacement 1: Do you have body parts fall asleep often? Get light-headed or faint?

When nerves, veins, and/or arteries are impinged signals to the brain and body part get messed up and blood and oxygen flow are compromised. This is what happens when your hand or foot falls asleep, or someone chokes you.

I was getting light headed so my dr sent me to the neurologist I annoyed in my first example. I was told years earlier I had "thoracic outlet syndrome." The neurologist said, "I don't believe TOS is real," so I demonstrated by tilting my head to the side, causing one hand to grow cold after impinging the blood supply.

When someone needs bleeding stopped we apply pressure or tourniquets. When we're too bendy (hyper-mobility) we accidentally interrupt nerve signals and blood supply.

Hold your collected pearls for this next part -

A million years ago I worked for a Seattle Orthopedic and Neurosurgery Clinic with 11 surgeons. I quickly learned some of the doctors had skeptical attitudes about what their patients reported. Female patients got the best help from these guys (they were all male) when they inspired the "heroic rescuer of a clueless fair maiden in dire danger she doesn't recognize" response.

Because they were surgeons, they liked to cut.

If someone walked in with a head four times the normal size screaming, "My brain is about to explode because I have increased intracranial pressure from damage to my pituitary canal! Give me Diamox!" the doctor would immediately doubt them, wonder if a neurosurgeon had screwed up, and cover their little malpractice insurance farting hole as they sent the patient to a therapist.

Their hero complex was threatened, not engaged.

If an attractive young woman came in with seizures and said, "This is normal, right?" the doctors would meet and debate her case and treatment options. I'd hear things like, "But she's a lovely girl with two kids!" Usually, they couldn't remember patient names or ages.

As in life and insurance, people normally get the help they need if they appear they don't need it, or don't have a clear idea of what they need.

I started wearing wrist braces to bed so I wouldn't wake up with frozen "claw hands." Keeping the blood supply and nerves free from impingement helps in the long run. Doctors and physical therapists recommend exercize. Grrrrr..... I could provide the percussion part for a heavy metal band if I did jumping jacks near a microphone.

This concludes my Weird Anatomy lecture series. 🤣

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Hi Robin. My daughter and I both have hypermobility. And are watching for it in the little grand-Gumby.

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grand-Gumby 😆😆 That's so cute. I was hoping I'd find some of my people with this though! Are you and your daughter clumsy too? I've been working on my proprioception.

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15 hrs ago·edited 14 hrs ago

Thank you!... Your symptoms and diagnosis problems track very closely with those of my wife. She still hasn't been officially diagnosed, but c'mon, she checks all the boxes. It's EDS.

I saw a doctor accuse her of getting the EDS idea from TikTok! Now, my wife is not a medical doctor, but she knows a thing or two about research: she's got a doctorate, and damn near a genius. Without a TikTok account, I might add.

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Ah you're wife is a fellow Gumbian, that's interesting! I'd say that's cool...but clearly it's not cool.

Your wife sounds smart indeed. Yes turning to social media is frowned upon (even thought she didn't), but it can be a tool like anything else. EDS is one of those things with very visible symptoms (and some invisible), so if she checks off the boxes the doc should've listened. The EDS symbol is a zebra because when evaluating symptoms doctors look for horses not zebras. Which is a solid strategy...except if you're the zebra.

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13 hrs ago·edited 12 hrs agoLiked by Robin Wilding

I’ve never heard the zebra bit before! Memorable.

That particular doctor didn’t listen long enough for her to make the case. He was wrong about other stuff too.

Best wishes until we cross paths again.

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It is sooo nice to "meet" you! I am not sure what part of Canada you are in however, have you thought about looking into natural health care? I know what it is like to go through Canadian health care system with and without a job supporting semi-private hospital rooms and full on wards! Doctors only know the medical side of things.. there is more for you to explore girl! If you are in Toronto, and are willing to travel to Markham I know of a couple that will have you snapping that skin back in place and having you doing cartwheels! You could also check out the Naturopathic school at Leslie and I think Sheppard. That is where I started out (as a patient/clinet).

There is medical genetics and then there is also nutrient genetics can also help. I am not dismissing what you are going through, believe me--I spent years in and out of hospitals and dick doctors! I love your passages and absolutely looney (get it) writings-- you make me miss home! I just want you to know there is a whole other world to explore-however, they are not looking for diagnoses, they are looking for balance and turn your What the fucks- to what the fuck that was amazing! Good luck ❤️

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I'm just outside Toronto. The Canadian healthcare system, sigh, it could be worse.

Super appreciate the advice. I've tried naturopathic. A naturopath actually helped me find my celiac diagnosis 20 years ago! It wasn't well known back then. That was awesome, but it hasn't been very helpful for EDS. But I've been working on a rather of byzantine system of things like healthy living, physio, etc. that seems to be helping a little.

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That is wonderful. The first naturopath I went to was so high on her horse it was a wonder she didn’t drown during a rainfall. I was diagnosed Celiac as well ohhh probably 30 years ago when GF tasted like cardboard.

Any way not sure which direction you are check out Lynne and Marlene at the Health House https://www.healthhouse.ca/ they were my teachers and later mentors. They have equipment and the knowledge that will blow your mind.

The Canadian Healthcare system is pretty good when you are in dire straights but for stuff like what you are going through — well it’s kind of like going through the fun house at the CNE.

I’ve been in the Canadian, Mexican and US medical system and they are all the same except you pay for everything right down to the number of cotton swabs used.

It’s frustrating — I feel ya girl. But don’t give in and think this is just it. We need you to be you and not some diagnoses controlling you ….. muawww xoxxo

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Well, cool. You’re Reed Richards to my Ben Grimm. Let’s go fight crime.

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I don't know what this means, but I heard crime fighting, so I'm in.

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Some Freaky Chakra shite!

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I'm sure my chakras are unaligned and also flexible hehe

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Made me think about tribe piercings, human skin can be stretched ❤️🐾

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True. It can. But also, probably don't haha

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